Aug 6, 2026 · 2h 24m
Filmmakers expose the multi-billion-dollar black market for exotic reptiles
#2536 - Eric Goode & Jermey McBride
The global black market for exotic pets threatens biodiversity, fuels international crime syndicates, and introduces devastating invasive species to fragile ecosystems.
- 1The global wildlife trade is a multi-billion-dollar black market that frequently overlaps with international drug smuggling networks.
- 2Invasive species like Burmese pythons have established breeding populations in the Florida Everglades, causing severe ecological crises.
- 3Pop culture trends and status-seeking collectors drive the high-value demand for rare, dangerous, and illegal reptiles.
Don't miss
Eric Goode shares his personal history of keeping reptiles, including the agonizing recovery process after being bitten by a venomous rattlesnake.
The brief
Filmmakers Eric Goode and Jeremy McBride join Joe Rogan to expose the dark, multi-billion-dollar global wildlife trade and the bizarre subculture of exotic reptile collecting featured in their new HBO docuseries, Monsters of God.
The exotic reptile market functions as a highly lucrative black market that frequently overlaps with international drug smuggling, driven by obsessive collectors seeking rare, dangerous, and often highly illegal species.
Pop culture trends have fueled a massive trade in invasive species like green iguanas and Burmese pythons, leading to severe ecological crises in vulnerable ecosystems like the Florida Everglades.
The filmmakers detail the extreme dangers of the trade, from the critical scarcity of antivenom for rare venomous snakes to the notorious history of figures like Mario Tabraue, a reptile collector with a past of drug smuggling.
As rare turtles and endangered animal parts command luxury prices as status symbols in Asia, conservationists face immense challenges trying to protect global ecosystems from human greed and ecological disruption.
What was said on this episode
87 statements · 24 positive · 47 negative · 3 mixed · 13 neutral
Illegal wildlife trafficking is approximately a $20 billion annual industry.
“illegal wildlife trafficking represents about a $20 billion a year industry”
Listen at 14:13
Illegal wildlife trafficking ranks behind guns, drugs, and human trafficking in industry size.
“only after guns, drugs and human trafficking”
Listen at 14:19
China has become a major consumer of reptiles for food and exotic pets.
“China is now a huge consumer of not just eating these reptiles, but keeping them as exotic pets”
Listen at 16:21
Most pythons skinned in Southeast Asia come from the regional python trade.
“Most of the pythons that are skinned in Southeast Asia”
Listen at 16:55
Most pythons used in Southeast Asian skinning are not endangered.
“most of them are not endangered”
Listen at 17:08
California broadly bans python skin sales because one species is endangered.
“to say all pythons cannot be used for the skin trade and sold in California because of one python out of many pythons”
Listen at 18:58
Fiji Island iguanas are highly endangered and restricted to zoos in the United States.
“A Fiji island iguana, you might want to put it up there.”
Listen at 22:50
There are approximately 45 iguana species.
“There's about 45 species”
Listen at 26:19
A small Jamaican iguana population was recently rediscovered after presumed extinction.
“the Jamaican iguana, and that was thought to be extinct forever, the Jamaican iguana, but they found a tiny population recently”
Listen at 26:41
Birds and snakes prey on baby iguanas but generally cannot prey on large iguanas.
“Some birds are prey and some snakes can eat baby iguanas, but not once they're like that.”
Listen at 27:49
Tegus from South America are an invasive lizard population in Florida.
“they have tegus in Florida that come from South America. A different type of lizard that's invasive in Florida.”
Listen at 28:46
Tegus commonly eat eggs, including bird and duck eggs.
“that lizard really loves to eat eggs”
Listen at 29:16
Crocodile monitor bites are comparable to Komodo dragon bites and are dangerous.
“don't get bit by a crocodile monitor. They're close to, like a Komodo dragon bite.”
Listen at 30:01
Turtles and tortoises rank among the planet's most endangered animal groups.
“they're the most endangered group of animals on the planet, along with primates”
Listen at 31:56
People should not treat turtles and tortoises as disposable pets.
“they shouldn't be disposable pets”
Listen at 32:18
People should not self-inject venom to build snakebite resistance.
“I don't think people should do it”
Listen at 42:26
In the United States, death from snakebite is very unlikely.
“the odds are very low that you're going to die from a snake bite no matter where you live in the country”
Listen at 43:06
Young snakes may have more potent venom, but large snakes can inject more venom and pose greater danger.
“young ones have a more condensed, more dangerous venom. But big snakes will are much more dangerous because they can put far more venom into you.”
Listen at 43:45
Snakes can survive in boxes, but enclosure needs vary substantially by species.
“But yes, they can survive in a box. But there's all different kinds of snakes.”
Listen at 58:14
Snake owners should provide captive snakes with more space.
“And they should give them more space. They should absolutely give them more space.”
Listen at 58:32
Giant tortoises are the longest-lived terrestrial animals, reaching almost 200 years.
“The longest lived animal, terrestrial animal on the planet is a giant tortoise. They can live almost 200 years.”
Listen at 1:00:10
Most snakes generally live no longer than 30 to 40 years.
“Snakes, generally most snakes don't live more than 30 to 40 years”
Listen at 1:00:19
Nile and saltwater crocodiles are the crocodilian species that kill the most people.
“saltwater crocodiles are the two crocs that really kill the most people”
Listen at 1:01:15
Saltwater crocodiles and leatherback turtles are the heaviest reptiles, exceeding 2,000 pounds.
“The biggest reptile in the world in terms of weight, back to our size conversation, is a saltwater crocodile. And it's neck and neck with a leatherback sea turtle. They're both over £2,000.”
Listen at 1:01:40
Large crocodilians have few or no natural predators once they reach sufficient size.
“once they get a certain size, you know, like you're saying they're pretty much invincible. Nothing can kill them”
Listen at 1:03:16
Approximately one in five reptiles is threatened with extinction.
“Now one out of every five are threatened with extinction”
Listen at 1:13:02
Reptile extinction threats are accelerating, partly because of pet trade and exotic-animal smuggling.
“it's growing at an accelerated rate, mainly because of things that we explore in our show. Pet trade, exotic, you know, smuggling, all of that.”
Listen at 1:13:05
Large mammals are more concerning to humans than most reptiles.
“a Kodiak bear, a polar bear, a lion, is a lot more concerning than most reptiles”
Listen at 1:14:55
Reptiles are less dangerous than people commonly perceive.
“Even though they're really not that scary.”
Listen at 1:15:25
Popular animal portrayals can unintentionally increase demand for animal pets.
“these well intentioned things and these ways which we portray animals”
Listen at 1:18:10
Films such as Finding Nemo and Harry Potter increased demand for clownfish and baby owls.
“Finding Nemo. Everyone wanted a clownfish. Harry Potter. Harry Potter. Everyone wanted a baby owl.”
Listen at 1:18:15
Jurassic Park increased demand for bearded dragons as miniature-dinosaur pets.
“Jurassic park. Everyone wants their little bearded Dragon because they want a miniature dinosaur.”
Listen at 1:18:30
Monsters of God may trigger renewed demand for pet snakes.
“who knows what's gonna happen after Monsters of God. They're all gonna want snakes again.”
Listen at 1:18:35
Texas holds more captive tigers than exist in the wild worldwide.
“there's more tigers in captivity in Texas than all the wild of the world.”
Listen at 1:19:17
Some human animal phobias may have a genetic-memory component.
“I think that's a genetic thing. I think there's a memory.”
Listen at 1:20:17
Exposure to animals influences whether children fear them.
“I also think it's like, you know, your exposure to it.”
Listen at 1:21:59
Alligators can run approximately 30 miles per hour.
“they can run like 30 miles an hour.”
Listen at 1:23:40
Endangered-species protections and DDT restrictions helped restore bald eagles and alligators.
“the Endangered Species act did help bald eagles, birds of prey. It actually worked because of ddt, but it brought back alligators.”
Listen at 1:24:26
Stronger wildlife enforcement can produce unintended downstream consequences.
“this real clear story of unintended consequences, which is the more you enforce, you have greater great laws that happen. But it triggers something else and that triggers something else.”
Listen at 1:25:25
Wildlife laws sometimes fail to achieve their intended effects.
“Sometimes the laws don't work.”
Listen at 1:27:20
Eric advised Joe Exotic to accept the government’s six-year plea offer.
“I said, take the deal.”
Listen at 1:31:21
Wildlife trafficking generally receives low criminal sentences.
“the sentencing is low for wildlife trafficking, wildlife crime.”
Listen at 1:31:49
The United States has become a source of wildlife exports to China.
“We're no longer bringing wildlife in to buy and collect. It's actually coming out of our country into China.”
Listen at 1:33:14
Native U.S. turtles and reptiles have increasingly been exported to Asia and Europe.
“we're exporting now, which is New in the last 10 years, a lot of native turtles and reptiles and other wildlife to southeast Asia and Europe.”
Listen at 1:33:52
Asia’s population and climate amplify its exotic-animal market relative to the United States.
“So they have a bigger market and the climate's pretty good to keep exotic animals like Florida. So it's just. It's like on steroids.”
Listen at 1:37:44
U.S. wildlife-border enforcement lacks enough staff to manage trafficking flows.
“It's very understaffed, undermanned. To be able to manage all the wildlife coming in and out of the country”
Listen at 1:38:30
Smuggled wildlife often suffers starvation and dehydration, making recovery impossible.
“they've been starved and dehydrated. You know, recovering them is impossible.”
Listen at 1:38:44
A confiscated shipment of U.S. turtles was worth approximately $500,000 in China.
“The shipment that just went out that we received, the confiscation from, it was about a half a million dollars.”
Listen at 1:39:50
A hyacinth macaw can sell for tens of thousands of dollars.
“One hyacinth macaw is like, you know, $60,000 today or 50,000 or whatever it is, 40,000.”
Listen at 1:40:40
Rachel Carson’s environmental advocacy helped make bald-eagle recovery possible.
“she really is why you have bald eagles”
Listen at 1:44:13
Banning DDT contributed to the recovery of eagles and other birds of prey.
“And then we banned it and eagles and birds of prey came back.”
Listen at 1:44:32
Joe Rogan evaluates wildlife reintroduction as disastrous, including Colorado wolves.
“Reintroduction is always a disaster. Reintroduction of wolves in Colorado right now is a disaster.”
Listen at 1:46:23
Wildlife reintroduction can succeed in some locations and is improving.
“Reintroduction works in some places. It's getting better.”
Listen at 1:46:44
Wildfires may drive mountain lions into suburban areas.
“I think that's motivated by displacement from fires.”
Listen at 1:48:05
Mountain lions periodically prey on domestic dogs in suburban areas.
“The mountain lions are eating people's dogs from time to time.”
Listen at 1:48:46
The plowshare tortoise became functionally extinct in Madagascar due to intense poaching.
“The tortoise functionally went extinct in Madagascar.”
Listen at 1:50:25
Plowshare tortoises can be valued at up to $100,000 in the pet trade.
“some of them can be worth as much as 100 grand”
Listen at 1:50:46
Wider legal availability of captive-bred plowshare tortoises could reduce poaching pressure.
“the only way you're going to take pressure off of this tortoise, it's like drugs, is if you either legalize drugs or, you know, in the case of drugs, or make this tortoise available for people around the world so they can have it”
Listen at 1:52:58
Allowing private ownership is presented as the ultimate solution to plowshare-tortoise poaching.
“The only way, ultimately, I think you can really take the pressure off of the poaching is to allow people to start to have them.”
Listen at 1:53:46
Defacing tortoise shells did not deter poachers.
“It ultimately didn't work.”
Listen at 1:54:17
Turtles have existed for more than 200 million years, predating dinosaurs.
“turtles have been on planet Earth longer than dinosaurs. They've been here for over 200 million years.”
Listen at 1:56:01
The golden coin turtle is believed to possess cancer-curing medicinal properties.
“Apparently it has certain properties that can cure cancer and other diseases.”
Listen at 2:00:25
A Yunnan box turtle could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
“a Yunnan box turtle today, if you could even get one, would be hundreds of thousands of dollars.”
Listen at 2:01:37
Commercializing parts of the pet trade may reduce wildlife scarcity.
“pet trade can commercial, you know, commercializing aspects of it can reduce.”
Listen at 2:03:02
U.S. turtle exports generate trade worth millions of dollars.
“the trade in turtles going out of this country is in the millions and millions and millions and millions.”
Listen at 2:03:28
Turtles can survive without food or water for extended periods.
“they can live without water or food, as, you know, for a very long time.”
Listen at 2:04:08
Large quantities of snakes are transported into China for the snake-meat market.
“they were heading into China. So the snake meat. The snake.”
Listen at 2:05:12
Tiger farms process tiger parts for sale to China.
“there's tiger farms and they part them out and they sell them to China.”
Listen at 2:05:47
Some tuna species may be becoming endangered.
“certain species of tuna, I think, are becoming pretty endangered.”
Listen at 2:11:42
Human hunting caused the extinction of passenger pigeons.
“We had passenger pigeons that, you know, made the skies dark, and we shot every one of them.”
Listen at 2:11:56
Conservation efforts are restoring the plowshare tortoise population.
“the plowshare tortoise is on its way back.”
Listen at 2:12:51
Well-intentioned human management of nature often fails.
“a lot of our good intentions managing nature doesn't work. Work oftentimes.”
Listen at 2:13:15
Mongooses drove the Jamaican iguana toward presumed extinction before rediscovery of a small population.
“The Jamaican iguana was extinct. We thought it was extinct because of mongooses. We've just recently found a small population”
Listen at 2:13:53
Asian consumers strongly value American turtles.
“in Asia, they really love our American turtles”
Listen at 2:17:13
Snapping turtles are not endangered in the United States.
“snapping turtles are not endangered in America”
Listen at 2:17:17
Alligator snapping turtles are endangered.
“alligator snapping turtles are.”
Listen at 2:17:20
Alligator snapping turtles are endangered.
“alligator snapping turtles are”
Listen at 2:17:20
Alligator snapping turtles are ambush predators.
“They're an ambush predator”
Listen at 2:17:29
A current documentary project should be released the following year.
“should come out next year”
Listen at 2:19:23
No documentary has yet addressed overfishing in the relevant way.
“I think there hasn't been a doc on overfishing”
Listen at 2:21:03
Overfishing is a significant environmental issue.
“overfishing is a big deal”
Listen at 2:21:29
Many undescribed insect species are being lost.
“We're losing a lot of really weird insects and they haven't even been described yet”
Listen at 2:21:35
Reef dynamiting is used to collect tropical fish in the Philippines.
“They dynamite the reefs in the Philippines”
Listen at 2:21:48
Saltwater tropical fish are difficult to breed.
“they don't breed easily”
Listen at 2:21:51
Freshwater tropical fish typically breed more easily than saltwater tropical fish.
“Saltwater tropical fish, freshwater ones typically do”
Listen at 2:21:52
- Eric Goode & Jeremy McBrideon Public awareness of smaller vertebrates and invertebratesNegative2:22:12
Public awareness is lacking for smaller vertebrates and invertebrates.
“there's just not a consciousness for smaller vertebrates and invertebrates”
Listen at 2:22:12
Monsters of God will be released the next day.
“Tomorrow”
Listen at 2:23:19
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
What people are saying
A $40,000 turtle, cocaine-filled snakes, and the dark side of exotic-animal trafficking
Episode reactions
- The $40,000 Golden Coin turtle revelation became a standout moment, prompting Rogan’s incredulous “People are paying $40,000 for a turtle?”
- Clips spotlighted Goode’s account of asking about human taxidermy at a trophy-hunting convention and being confronted afterward.
- The episode’s most shocking anecdotes included claims about tiger-penis delicacies and smugglers hiding cocaine inside boa constrictors.
Wider topic conversation
- Wider coverage frames Monsters of God as an investigation into the global exotic-reptile trade and its criminal networks.
- Reviews describe Eric Goode’s recurring focus on reptiles, rare-animal collectors, trafficking, and the strange characters surrounding the trade.
Featuring
Monsters of God
Burmese pythons in Florida
Florida Everglades
Drug smugglingBooks & mentions
Listen to the full episode and explore every guest, topic, and moment on PodLume.