Aug 4, 2026 · 2h 27m
Rico Verhoeven challenges boxing politics and demands Oleksandr Usyk rematch
JRE MMA Show #183 with Rico Verhoeven
This episode exposes the promotional hurdles, subjective judging, and intense physical demands elite fighters face when transitioning between combat sports.
- 1Subjective judging and promotional politics continue to limit transparency and frustrate elite fighters in major boxing matches.
- 2Transitioning from kickboxing to boxing demands distinct endurance training and specialized recovery methods to survive heavyweight power.
- 3Operating as a free agent allows fighters to bypass traditional promotional roadblocks and secure massive international matchups.
Don't miss
Rico Verhoeven opens up about the tragic loss of his mother during training camp and how he managed his grief while preparing for the fight.
The brief
Kickboxing champion Rico Verhoeven returns to the podcast to break down his highly controversial boxing match against Oleksandr Usyk, exposing the deep-seated political and scoring issues currently plaguing modern combat sports.
Verhoeven details his frustration with subjective scoring and promotional politics, arguing that a lack of transparency and promotional backing in the United States prevents elite kickboxers from receiving the mainstream recognition they deserve.
The transition from kickboxing to boxing requires drastic athletic adjustments, yet Verhoeven explains how his rigorous high-endurance strength conditioning and specialized recovery protocols allowed him to push the heavyweight champion to his absolute limits.
In a deeply personal moment, Verhoeven opens up about the immense emotional weight of losing his mother during his training camp, revealing how he channeled grief into his preparation for one of the biggest fights of his career.
Now operating as a high-profile free agent, Verhoeven is eyeing a lucrative rematch with Usyk to settle the score, while simultaneously building a secondary career in Hollywood action films alongside stars like Jason Statham.
What was said on this episode
57 statements · 41 positive · 10 negative · 3 mixed · 3 neutral
Boxing should use five judges instead of three.
“I think five's the right number. I think three is too few”
Listen at 4:26
Combat-sports officiating should allow rapid review and reversal of referee mistakes.
“there should be people or a situation where it's like, hey, sorry, ref, but you made a mistake. This wasn't the right call, so we can overturn it in a split of a second.”
Listen at 5:59
A rematch with Usyk makes sense for Verhoeven.
“I would like the rematch. Because it makes sense.”
Listen at 10:31
Deontay Wilder is no longer the fighter he was previously.
“He's not the same guy. No, he's not the same guy.”
Listen at 11:11
A Verhoeven–Usyk rematch would be extremely large commercially.
“That fucking rematch would be gigantic. It would be so huge.”
Listen at 11:29
Verhoeven can sustain his high pace throughout the fight.
“He's going to be able to do this all night long.”
Listen at 13:09
The Verhoeven–Usyk fight stoppage came too early while Verhoeven remained okay.
“the fight was stopped too quickly. It just was 100% and you were still okay.”
Listen at 13:17
Corruption was more likely than incompetence in the fight’s officiating.
“And I tend to think corruption.”
Listen at 13:43
Kickboxing or Muay Thai is the world’s most exciting stand-up sport.
“I think is the most exciting stand up sport in the world. I don't think it's even close.”
Listen at 23:24
American kickboxing could become a gigantic market with effective promotion.
“It is an untapped market that if somebody figured it out and dove in and made it, it would be gigantic.”
Listen at 24:20
UFC-style storytelling and promotion could make kickboxing extremely successful.
“If the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I think it would be gigantic.”
Listen at 25:52
A ring is better than a cage for combat-sports fights.
“I personally think the ring is better.”
Listen at 26:55
Boxing could supplement official judges with collective expert scoring through an app.
“Maybe there's like a special app that those guys can judge on. So you have a collective expert opinion and you get to look at that as well.”
Listen at 36:28
Moving left against a southpaw boxer avoids the opponent’s strongest hand.
“as soon as you move to the left, you're walking away from that strong arm.”
Listen at 45:02
Moses Itauma represents the future of heavyweight boxing.
“He's the future.”
Listen at 54:27
Usyk’s potential Wilder fight suggests he seeks one final lucrative payday.
“for Usyk to want that fight signals to me that he just, you know, wants just go out with one more payday and that's it.”
Listen at 57:19
Verhoeven is leaning toward continuing in boxing after enjoying the transition.
“Yeah, because I've been in. In the boxing game now, and I've enjoyed it so much.”
Listen at 57:50
Heavyweight boxing consistently contains the greatest financial opportunities.
“The heavyweight division is where the real money's at. Always.”
Listen at 59:20
Verhoeven needed six months to transition properly from kickboxing to boxing.
“I needed that time to get, like, a clean transition.”
Listen at 1:09:42
Verhoeven believes his opponents are suffering when he begins feeling tired.
“if at the moment I feel I'm getting tired, then I know my opponent is feeling fucked.”
Listen at 1:12:31
Verhoeven evaluates himself as neither the hardest puncher nor most skilled, but the hardest worker.
“I'm not the strongest puncher. I also don't believe I'm the most skillful, but I'm definitely the hardest worker.”
Listen at 1:16:12
Verhoeven performs high-repetition full-body workouts three times weekly.
“I do a full body, full body workout three times a week. And just a lot of reps.”
Listen at 1:16:40
Additional muscle mass increases the oxygen demands of carrying it during fighting.
“the more muscles I have, I have to just carry them with me. And all those muscles, they. They want and they need oxygen.”
Listen at 1:18:01
Running on concrete is not a smart choice for Verhoeven’s body.
“I don't believe it's smart.”
Listen at 1:19:06
Studies find no benefit from surgically removing the meniscus.
“they've done studies and they find that there's no benefit to that.”
Listen at 1:20:42
Rogan reports using red-light therapy at least four or five times weekly.
“I do a lot of red light therapy. I do that at least four or five times a week.”
Listen at 1:21:59
Maintaining fitness allows people to preserve performance over time.
“if you stay in shape, it's remarkable how much you could keep it going.”
Listen at 1:22:25
Exercise makes people feel substantially better.
“if you just do it, you'll feel so much better.”
Listen at 1:23:40
Using emotional pain as physical-fighting fuel is an unhealthy general coping strategy.
“I feel like, personally, in relationships and just in general in just living, I think that's not the way to cope with it.”
Listen at 1:25:34
Feeling genuine emotions can improve an actor’s on-camera performance.
“as soon as you feel it's even better, it's going to transition even better on camera”
Listen at 1:29:30
Verhoeven needs four clear months to prepare for a fight of this magnitude.
“I need a good, like, clean four months to get ready for a fight of this magnitude.”
Listen at 1:34:03
Redesigning MMA gloves could substantially reduce eye pokes.
“there's a way to do that where it would probably eliminate a lot of the eye pokes.”
Listen at 1:39:02
Rogan does not consider Cyril Gane an intentionally dirty fighter.
“I don't think Cyril Gon's a dirty fighter.”
Listen at 1:39:48
Cyril Gane is not intentionally fighting dirty.
“I don't think Cyril Gon's a dirty fighter. I just think he's trying to finish fights.”
Listen at 1:39:48
Boxing makes the most financial sense for Rico Verhoeven now.
“for you, boxing makes the most sense, especially at this point in your life financially”
Listen at 1:43:25
Exciting fighters who attract viewers should earn more money.
“all the fighters deserve the fighters that. That bring in the viewers that are exciting. Yeah. They should earn a little bit more.”
Listen at 1:43:59
Turki Alalshikh has raised boxing's promotional standard by making difficult fights happen.
“Turkey Al Sheikh has really ramped up the game, really raised the bar, because he's getting guys to fight that didn't want to fight each other.”
Listen at 1:44:15
Close, controversial fights with poor judging should receive rematches.
“when a fight is that close and ends that controversially and then the judging is. The scoring is that bad, the right thing to do is to have a rematch.”
Listen at 1:47:28
Turki Alalshikh and Riyadh Season probably would have made Mayweather–Pacquiao earlier.
“if Turkey Ala Sheikh had been around back then, they. And Riyadh season had been around back then, they probably would have made that happen when they're in their prime.”
Listen at 1:50:00
More MMA-promotion competition benefits fighters by increasing their options.
“competition is good. Good competition is great. And the more competition, the better. And definitely better for the fighters to have options.”
Listen at 1:51:03
Combat sports are currently at an all-time high in popularity.
“combat sports is at its all time high. Boxing, mma, kickboxing, everything is like going through the roof.”
Listen at 1:51:40
Kickboxing could reach MMA-like mainstream status within ten years.
“you could see a world where kickboxing could enter into that, you know, 10 years from now be in the same, a similar category”
Listen at 1:52:12
The Netherlands' small size increases Dutch kickboxing quality through frequent interaction.
“because we're such a small country, that's what increases the level so much”
Listen at 1:53:58
Combat sports should have transparency, safety, and proper judging.
“everything needs to be transparent and it needs to be safe and with the judging”
Listen at 1:59:30
Combat-sports participants should receive fair compensation.
“it has to be fair and it needs to be compensated the right”
Listen at 2:00:01
Rico Verhoeven has remained in his competitive prime beyond the usual nine-year window.
“you can only really compete in your prime for nine years. You've shown yourself to be an exception to that rule”
Listen at 2:00:33
Greater combat-sports viewership increases revenue and fighters' promotional options.
“the more eyes on the sport, the more people watch the sport, the more money will be in the sport, and then the more. The fighters will have options for who to fight for.”
Listen at 2:02:07
ONE Championship is large in Asia but has not gained comparable U.S. popularity.
“in One FC they're having these guys fighting and you know, they're. It's really big in Asia, but it just has not caught on in America.”
Listen at 2:06:09
Zuffa could eventually support UFC fighters entering boxing, but currently does not prioritize it.
“It's possible that they would do that, but right now they're not concentrating on that.”
Listen at 2:09:54
Conor McGregor's boxing-focused hiatus hurt his return to MMA momentum.
“It kind of messed him up going back in MMA again. He didn't have the same momentum.”
Listen at 2:10:35
Boxing places less stress on the knees than MMA.
“boxing is not as hard on the knees”
Listen at 2:11:04
Calf kicks are effective weapons and should remain legal in MMA.
“It's a weapon. To take away that weapon when we know how effective it is.”
Listen at 2:13:02
A single knee-targeting kick can cause a year-long absence.
“one kick could change and you're out for a year”
Listen at 2:16:06
MMA rules should allow knees to the head of grounded opponents in some positions.
“you should be able to knee that guy in the head”
Listen at 2:17:11
Karate Combat's fighting area may be a better alternative to the MMA cage.
“I think maybe even what karate combat's doing might be the best way to do it.”
Listen at 2:17:52
Canelo Alvarez adopted techniques from his fight with Floyd Mayweather.
“I truly believe that he took so much from that fight with Mayweather, because then he started applying it himself.”
Listen at 2:22:51
Rico Verhoeven is the greatest heavyweight kickboxer ever.
“Greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time.”
Listen at 2:24:56
Statements are attributed to the speaker as said on the episode and reflect their view at the time, not PodLume's. They are not advice.
What people are saying
Rico Verhoeven’s Usyk loss sparks a blunt debate over boxing’s judging and money
Episode reactions
- Joe’s claim that the Usyk decision reflected either “incompetence or corruption” became the episode’s sharpest talking point.
- Rico’s account of the disputed loss, grief over his mother’s death, and desire for a rematch drew repeated attention.
- Rogan’s blunt advice that Rico should stay in boxing for larger purses, rather than pursue the UFC, was widely clipped.
Wider topic conversation
- Fans broadly praised Rico’s performance against Usyk while debating whether kickboxing skills can translate to elite boxing.
- The boxing-versus-MMA money debate continues, with fans weighing Rico’s UFC prospects against potential boxing purses.
- Rico’s crossover has raised interest in kickboxing, possible bouts with Alistair Overeem, and comparisons across combat-sports rulesets.
Featuring
Rico Verhoeven
Oleksandr Usyk
Combat sports judging
Jason Statham
KickboxingBooks & mentions
The Joe Rogan Experience
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