Oct 5, 2026 · 1h 32m
Suffering challenges the stories we use to make sense of life
When Bad Things Happen to Good People
The episode asks how to meet tragedy without blame or forced optimism, while examining whether spirituality can offer resilience and connection.
- 1Kate Bowler argues that people in pain need honest witnesses more than explanations, solutions, or positivity.
- 2Lisa Miller links spiritual practice, awe, and transcendent connection with resilience, purpose, and recovery after hardship.
- 3The episode distinguishes organized religion from broader forms of spirituality rooted in love, relationship, nature, art, and science.
Don't miss
Kate Bowler’s argument that people facing tragedy first need witnesses who acknowledge reality and remain present, not people who impose meaning.
The brief
Kate Bowler recounts receiving a stage-four colon cancer diagnosis at 35, after building the life she had imagined with her husband and young son.
Her experience exposes how quickly people turn suffering into a problem to solve, a lesson to teach, or evidence of personal failure.
Bowler makes the case for presence over forced positivity: hope can coexist with grief, uncertainty, absurdity, and the need to ask for help.
Lisa Miller then examines spirituality as a human capacity, connecting prayer, meditation, awe, and transcendent relationships with resilience and purpose.
The episode’s sharpest turn comes when spiritual experience moves beyond organized religion, including an MRI-room moment of peace and awe during a total solar eclipse.
Featuring
Kate BowlerMentioned
Candide
DukeBooks & mentions
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Joyful Anyway
Bowler’s reflection on durable joy, loss, uncertainty, and ordinary difficulty extends the episode’s central argument.
The Awakened Brain: The New Science of Spirituality and Our Quest for an Inspired Life
Miller’s book expands the research linking spirituality, brain science, resilience, and purpose.
Listen to the full episode and explore every guest, topic, and moment on PodLume.